During the WoW Forever beta, there has been a huge skew towards Horde to the point where Horde character creation has been locked multiple times. I've played Horde all my life and will be doing so in WoWF, but I really don't want Horde to outnumber the Alliance like this. Here are some of the problems I've identified:

1. Asmongold. This guy is a huge factor pushing people away from the Alliance. If you're switching for this reason, please remember that this guy essentially quit Classic after getting farmed on repeat by AdvertiseSP. His reign won't last long, and you shouldn't base your decision off of what he does. He's farming content because the game is new and fresh, but his relevance will fade away as he and his audience gets bored.
2. Skyborne have made the Horde aesthetically accessible to people who otherwise wouldn't play it. They muddy the aesthetic distinction between Horde and Alliance, so a lot of Alliance players feel comfortable with the Skyborne aesthetic. In Vanilla the deciding factor between whether you played Alliance or Horde is whether you wanted to be a big disgusting monster or not.
3. Undead paladins are by far the coolest race/class combo they've added, and a lot of people just want to play that.

The dynamic rivalry between the Horde and Alliance is one of my favorite things about Classic, and I really don't want that to be screwed with just because of a stupid streamer farming content during launch. My request for WoWF players is to play the race and faction that appeals to them---that they can identify with, instead of taking into account momentary contingencies such as Olympus. For as much as I loathe you Alliance dogs, Azeroth would be much lonelier without you.

They should let us just pay money to ignore the rules, maybe an extra $50 a month. How cool would that be? We all know they let streamers do it because they bring in money, so if we give them extra money...we should get to do it too! Be as racist, homophobic and sexist as we want, make one huge guild and try to troll the whole server, botting, boosting, blatantly buy gold...on VIP subscription all is forgiven!

Blizzard, if your soul is up for sale...let us normies buy a piece.

Ive got 60 tokens and can’t see the repeatable quest anymore, but also if you need to turn in and only get 5 when we are able to get to 30, are there anyone else thinking of saving it for next lvl release?

I know this is talked about a lot, but i wanted to add to our collective voice.

As it was said at Blizzcon, classic's art style is timeless and Forever should still feel like classic. However, looking at the new assets, that philosophy seems to just not be true.

Classic has a very distinctive visual identity. Simple geometry, strong silhouettes, stylized proportions. The details are mainly in the textures. Compared to the new assets that have complex geometry, soft silhouettes and details shown through said complex geometry rather than the classic style. It doesn't need to be said this creates a jarring contrast. Confusing even.

With the beta we've seen the new sky elf druid forms, along with new creatures in their starting zone. They feel like they're from a completely different generation of the game, which they essentially are since many of them are just ports from retail.

We can't be having retail models ported to Forever with low res textures. The art style is not the same. The artistic standard has to be "I have never seen this before, but it is unmistakably classic."

This has to be addressed by Blizzard.

I bought into the hype for WoW Forever and have been talking about it all week with friends. Bought the Collector’s Edition and was going to fully embrace this new experience.

After watching Blizzard backpedal today on their paneled discussion over strict RMT bans, I’m fully out.

For anyone who didn’t see the clip, the streamer known as Ziqo accepted 380g and then another 200g immediately after, from level one characters while ‘accepting donations’ for the upcoming dueling tournament on WoW Forever’s Beta. This streamer has a history of buying gold and boldly just completed his RMT transaction on stream under the guise of ‘donations to your steamer!’

Anyone who has any sense understands the reality of what the clip shows. The gravity of Blizzard backpedaling on their paneled discussion against RMT is the biggest let down of this upcoming launch.

Reckful catches a ban for account sharing on stream but clear RMT (arguably worse and someone needs to be made an example of) on the Wow Forever BETA no less, has zero consequences and instead we get a blue post suggesting that RMT ‘CAN’ (no longer ‘WILL’) lead to account closing.

I’m out. Unless Blizzard enforces this ‘crackdown’ on RMT that they eagerly shared at their convention, I’ll be using every ounce of effort to return the Collector Edition and swear off World of Warcraft ‘forever’.

I thought this experience could truly be different. Instead we will be competing with gold buyers left and right, watching them ruin the economy, inflating markets, and taking every advantage they can squeeze. All with the shit-eating-grin from knowing Blizzard will let them get away with it.

Gold buying is truly despicable behavior and Blizzard folding on blatant RMT gold buying ON STREAM is all I needed to see. Hope you guys enjoy the launch. I quit.

This was a sad sight to see for their expensive 20 Legionite bar cost.

Can someone explain to my why you dont want arenas to be added in wow forever?

I love all things pvp with world pvp being what i love the most but i only like world pvp when it comes down to small fights not a huge fan of those 40v40 big ass raid battles.

I have seen people saying that arenas would just end up being a queue similator and you kill the world around you if all you do is queueing arenas.
I can agree to that statement but BGs are a thing and thats the same you queue them in the main citys and dont run out in the world? Isnt it literally the same thing? Please help me understand because i really dont.

And for arenas imo you wouldnt need to have conquest gear and such just stick it with similar ruleset as BGs and have things like big raid items still being really good in pvp like it is right now. It can even be a way to farm honor for high warlord or whatever rather than having a Rating with a MMR system. I really wanted to see how arenas could work with the ruleset of vanilla wow! Sad we dont get to see that.

The character could hop between servers?

Just like OSRS is , multiple servers, you decide what server to join in . Layering seems too complicated .

The Mega server is cheaper this is why it is the pick ?

Just as an example, frost mage, affliction warlock, and subtlety rogue in classic were more about control than the dps meter. People raided as frost, but that was primarily because MC enemies were immune to fire, and arcane was in a weird place.

Now, it seems like all the specs in forever are being oriented towards being a raid spec. Why? Do they need to be? What do you think?

IMO stuff like shadow step, water elemental frost nova, unstable affliction...those abilities are spec defining for the control specs, and for the most part only the classes with 3 dps specs have a "control" spec. Resto Druid (with cyclone, roots, hibernate, shapeshifting) comes close to this as well in TBC.

But, it seems now like these more control-oriented specs are kinda being oriented more towards raiding.

Curious what other people think.

I know it's a huge talking point right now, especially among streamers who influence the broader community, that the game shoulnd't have any form of rated PvP. Blizzard is adding some sort of arena system so we will see how that turns out. But I want to address the core issue with implementing a 2004-style "pre-rating" system in 2027. Premade pub stomps become the meta for honor farming. This was only avoided in 2019 classic because of AV, which surely we don't want to bring back- and even that had premades running it.

If there is no "rating" tied to your team or matchmaking, full-sweat premades get matched against either full pub lobbies or random noob yolo groups. For average players, BGs just become farming grounds for the sweatiest players; the players who will blow full consumes, sappers, flasks, etc. to farm honor and terrorize dad gamers for bragging rights. Team would full sweat warsong, hold flags hostage, and brag about their W/L record against PuGs while blowing hundreds of gold against any opposing, more chill pre-made.

I get people have an aversion to rating. But the reason all PvP games since 2004 have some sort of rating system is to, at the very least, matchmake groups and prevent player frustration. You're not going to have an experience in 2027 in just about any online game where you can grab a group of sweats and farm noobs 24/7 for rewards. That is just not a good system, and it incentivizes degeneracy.

Arena post: https://www.wowhead.com/forever/news/could-arenas-be-coming-to-wow-forever-383090

Looks like there is built in res in pvp

Honestly? I think that's good. Imho one shoting ppl is not fun at all

https://www.icy-veins.com/wow-forever/news/players-found-a-hidden-pvp-rule-in-wow-forever-that-halves-crit-bonuses/

If I think about my fondest memories from old WoW, most of them have to do with random event and encounters that happened because back then, a realm was a real, living virtual world.

The new layering system is simply unacceptable. Anniversary was already broken, especially people layering on purpose to avoid other players or have quicker access to an NPC or resources. At least it was somewhat predictable and if you didn't abuse it yourself it felt pretty stable.

When they announced Forever I thought, surely, in a new and well funded project, they would come up with a good system. Sigh.

Obviously the chance of them changing it now is pretty much zero. It makes me sad because it is probably going to be the one turn off I can't get over. I really want to enjoy the game and play with my friends but this is too much.

For posterity, here's the armchair spec I came up with for a system that puts player experience and immersion first:

• A number of realms exist at any time for each game mode

• A realm is a single, non layered instance of the world

• Every character belongs to a realm

• Players can choose the realm they want to connect to upon logging in

• Switching realm can be done at will by logging out in a major city (or inn), possibly with some rate limiting

• Character names are unique per region so that realm hopping doesn't cause naming collisions

• Busy realms have individual queues

• PVP realms have enforced faction balance

• Auction house is cross-realm

• Optionally, players from different realms can form a group. They are not able to see each other in the world but can do instanced content together. LFG tool could have a cross-realm toggle

• Optionally, a way to trade cross-realm (possibly through a new NPC) could be implemented, along with a cross-realm trade chat

• When all realms are close to full capacity, new realms are spun automatically

• On reset day, low actitivy realms can be merged

How hard is it really? I heard blizzard devs are wizards. Depends on your priorities I guess?

Many of my long keybinds like Mouse Wheel Up and Mouse Wheel Down were both getting displayed as "Mou..." on my action bars. Not particularly helpful when you forget a keybind.

I wanted clearer labels without replacing Blizzard’s action bars, so I made Clean Binds.

It lets you give each action button a short label of your choosing:

• Mouse Wheel Up -> MWU
• Mouse Wheel Down -> MWD
• Mouse Button 4 -> MB4
• MMO mouse buttons -> N1, N2, or whatever matches your setup.

It changes the text, not your actual keybindings. Your bars keep their normal fonts, colors, and layout.

The addon integrates cleanly and seemlessly into the Options menu so looks like part of the Blizzard UI: Options -> AddOns -> Clean Binds, or you can type /cleanbinds. Buttons are grouped by action bar, and you can preview labels as you type. Labels also follow WoW's account-wide or character-specific keybinding setting, without another profile system to manage.

It's free and open source. Currently supports WoW Forever and Blizzard’s default action bars only, including the Pet and Stance bars.

Download: CurseForge | Wago | GitHub

Source and issues: GitHub

Hopefully this helps anyone else staring at unclear keybind labels. Feedback and bug reports are welcome!

Like level to 14 or whatever then do these specific things in this specific order to hit 20? From what I hear you can do a few dungeons to go from 14 to 20 basically, but I'm not sure the exact steps also for the deadmines quest not sure which quest chains are required.

Now I wont need to farm SM armory for Ravager

Edit: Looks like there's also elemental and resto fist weapon options

Been having a lot of fun running Blackfathom Deeps in the beta. The greater challenge along with the prospect of acquiring strong loot ticks something in my brain that neither raids or normal dungeon circumstances can replicate.

When I say heroic I don't mean like TBC. They'd be completely new dungeons but tuned up to be a more of a challenge that other end game dungeons (like Strat for example). Nothing crazy (like mythic) but something that requires your full attention and some level of tactics to complete it. And being better geared.

This would be a good alternative to people who don't love the raiding scene. Of course good loot would drop from these dungeons. They would be on a 24 hour lockout.

In case ive missed it. Is it still not possible to put enchants on the AH?

During classic enchanting was completely dominated by auto invite addons / bots.

Im looking to avoid that profession if it still will be like that.

My thought is to empower Holy Strike with Judgment so you still have a Seal-based rotation to do.

The Judgment effects are just some ideas I came up with in 10 minutes. (ofc need tuning)

But what do you think about the philosophy behind the mechanic?

The idea came from this :

Am I getting these stats right?

Belt 1:

• 11 stam (110 hp)
• 24 int
  • 240 mana
  • 2.4% spell crit
  • 7.2 spell damage (most likely rounded down to 7)
  • 24 attack power
• 15 spell damage

Belt 2:

• 11 stam
• 24 str (48 attack power)
• 15 spell damage

For context, these are thew new epic belts from the Real gear vendor in BB. Every class/role has their own respective belt.

The Current State of Rogues

I have been maining Rogue for almost 20 years, and I have recently been following the WoW Forever beta with great interest.

However, the current state of Rogues is honestly quite discouraging, and because of that, I haven't really been able to get excited about the class. There are several things that I find questionable and, in some cases, outright concerning.

1. Hidden Nerfs

Subtlety

Opportunity: nerfed from 20% to 10% damage

Hemorrhage: the additional raid damage has been removed

Combat

Hit: nerfed from 5% to 3%

Weapon Skill: removed

Assassination

Lethality: nerfed from 30% to 20%

These changes might not look huge individually, but when you add them all together, they have a significant impact on Rogue's overall performance.

1. Strange Talent Tree Decisions

The Subtlety tree gets a Rupture ultimate talent, which feels rather strange. Subtlety is supposed to be the PvP-oriented Rogue spec, yet Rupture doesn't really fit that role when you cannot Blind or Gouge and then restealth during combat.

The talent Quietus is also extremely weak and, as a result, basically useless.

In the Combat tree, you still have to invest in Improved Sinister Strike or Lightning Reflexes when playing daggers, which feels very awkward. The entire third row is also basically useless for PvE situations.

Flawless Execution has replaced the only talent in that section that was at least somewhat interesting.

But perhaps the biggest issue is that none of the three talent trees received any form of Energy regeneration.

This means that you still have roughly 600 Energy per minute, which translates into only around 15 Sinister Strikes. As a result, we can realistically use only three finishers, and two of them have to be Slice and Dice.

1. What About the Other Classes?

Almost every other class seems to have received some really nice reworks, new abilities, or interesting new spells.

That feels particularly disappointing for a DPS-only class.

We don't provide meaningful raid utility.

We don't provide meaningful support.

We can't tank.

We don't have the same level of kiting utility as other classes.

So if our only real role is dealing damage, and we're now a B-tier damage class, what exactly is the reason to bring a Rogue to a raid?

The Rogue rework currently feels extremely underwhelming.

Even Druids can now use our iconic Thistle Tea...

That leaves very little room for an engaging or flexible rotation.

1. How Could This Be Improved?

There are multiple ways these issues could be addressed.

Give every Rogue spec some form of passive Energy regeneration

For example:

Assassination: gain X Energy whenever a poison procs

Combat: gain X Energy whenever your off-hand hits

Subtlety: gain X Energy whenever you critically strike

These are just examples, but the general idea is to give each spec its own way of generating additional Energy and make the rotations feel less starved.

Stop trying to force Subtlety into a raid spec

Subtlety is fundamentally a PvP-oriented spec. Instead of trying to turn it into another raid DPS option, give it something that actually reinforces its identity.

Shadowstep or Cloak of Shadows as the ultimate talent would make far more sense and would give the spec a much stronger identity.

Rogues need some form of raid utility

This is probably the most important point.

Rogues need some way to contribute to their group or raid beyond simply doing damage.

The solution from Season of Discovery was actually a pretty good approach, but it doesn't have to be copied directly.

A talent could, for example, provide the group with:

increased Critical Strike chance

increased damage

some form of offensive buff

or another unique utility effect

There are plenty of ways to approach this while still keeping the Rogue's identity intact.

Conclusion

Right now, Rogue feels like the weakest class overall, while also bringing very little unique utility to a raid group.

For a class that is entirely focused on DPS, I don't think simply being a B-tier damage dealer is enough.

I really hope the developers take another look at the Rogue changes before the final release. There is a lot of potential here, but in its current state, the Rogue rework feels very underwhelming.

Thanks for reading.

I don't know if they're using hotkeys or Azeroth Auction Assassin but it's literally impossible to beat them to the low laying fruit